A BOSTON TIVO USER
WRITES IN ASKING
ABOUT BUILDING A
PC-TV PVR BOX
WITH EXTRA CAPACITY

There are a bunch of power TV watchers out there. And they really want their TV. First, they tried to satisfy their appetite with TiVo personal video recorders boxes that they bought from their local TV electronics store. Then they upgraded their TiVo boxes with more storage. But they still wanted more PVR capacity. And they wanted more channels and not be limited to the basic 125 channels provided by basic cable -- they wanted to be able to access the hundreds and hundreds of channels provided by digital cable and digital satellite subscription television (and they are not necessarily talking about HDTV, but they are more concerned about being able to access the hundreds and hundreds of channels that are available via digital cable and digital satellite). One recent email is an example of this increasingly insatiable appetite for more and more PVR capacity for watching TV. A TiVo user from Boston sends in an email message:

I am currently a TiVo user. I have upgraded my TiVo to the maximum storage, but I am becoming more and more concerned about TiVo's limitations such as the amount of maximum storage space and if the harddrive fails. What I would dearly love to do is build a TiVo-like box with a bunch of big harddrives in a RAID configuation for much greater storage and also for some fault tolerance in case a harddrive fails.

By the same token, I was thinking that it would be nice to be able to record two channels at once, and perhaps watch a third. Is it possible to do this by having multiple TV Tuners in the computer? Would it be possible to simultaneously record several TV shows at the same time to a harddrive or to a RAID configuration of multiple harddrive devices?

The TV Tuner cards I've been seeing all seem to be limited in the number of channels they can access. I have digital cable which has up to 500+ channels. Are you aware of any TV Tuner cards that would be able to access all the digital channels in my lineup?

SIMULTANEOUS RECORDINGS
WITH MULTIPLE TV TUNER CARDS

If you've read the other PC-TV pages here at Ruel.Net, then you would already know that I have watched three "live" TVs at the same time on my PC-TV system. I've also watched live TV with one of the cards while the Creative Video Blaster Digital VCR card was recording another show that I would watch later. And I have watched one recorded show while another show was recording which is what you can do with the Creative Video Blaster Digital VCR card by itself (i.e., simultaneously watch a recorded show and record another) without having to use the other TV cards. I've also let that card record while it was in standby mode while I was watching an exported .mpg file of a different show in PowerDVD. This has been by using three inexpensive different -- but not identical -- TV Tuner cards (an ATI TV Wonder card, a WinTV-GO card, and the Creative Video Blaster Digital VCR card) but I only use one of the TV cards for the PVR capability.

However, SageTV now has the capability for recording multiple shows at the same time. Needless to say, you will need two TV Tuner cards to allow SageTV to do that. Otherwise if you only have one TV card then you can only record one TV show at a time -- but with most PVR software, even if you only have one TV card installed on your PC, you should be able to watch a previously recorded TV show while the PVR is recording a new TV show at the same time. (You can click here for more info about how Ruel has used SageTV with one card.) Get two WinTV-PVR 250 cards and use that with SageTV. You could try using one WinTV-PVR 250 card and one Creative Video Blaster Digital VCR card with SageTV. Other people are using SageTV with multiple TV Tuner cards, but you really need the TV Tuner cards with the hardware recording encoder like with the WinTV-PVR 250 card or the Creative VB DVCR card in order to use SageTV. Also, you would want the hardware encoder because of the demand that the recording activity will have on the system.

You can go with a software encoder like with using Showshifter or Snapstream with cheaper TV cards, but if you want to do simultaneous recordings then you may perhaps have to use completely different software for each TV card on a PC if you want to do multiple recordings with software-based recording encoder. However, be aware that software recording encoders can place a resource-intensive demand on a system. Nonetheless, it can be done but you will have to experiment to see what actually works on your system.

FYI, I've tried using Showshifter with its software encoder to record one show with my WinTV-GO card while the Creative Video Blaster Digital VCR card with its hardware encoder was using its regular default PVR software to record another show at the same time. And it worked. So, it can be done. Again, you can try the more powerful SageTV with the appropriate TV cards if you are really interested in doing multiple simultaneous recordings. But for SageTV, you may want to try either a double WinTV-PVR 250 card situation or a combination WinTV-PVR 250 and Creative Video Blaster Digital VCR card situation.

If you really want to record multiple channels simultaneously, then this should be easily done for regular antenna broadcast TV or for regular plain basic non-digital no-converter-box cable TV. Just get a signal splitter and hook up the antenna or regular cable signal to the different connections on your TV Tuner cards. However, if you are asking about recording multiple digital TV channels, then you may need TWO (or more) sources for the digital TV signal and this may mean that you may need to have a separate digital cable box or digital satellite box for each TV input. Keep in mind that you would essentially have two (or more) TVs in a setup of multiple TV Tuner cards and you would need a signal source for each TV card. You will have to check your box to see how many TVs that you can actually hook up the box to. Again, if you are only concerned with regular antenna broadcast TV or plain regular basic non-digital no-converter-box cable TV, then a basic splitter hookup to the antenna or to the cable TV connection should work.

ADDING HARDDRIVES
AND SETTING UP A RAID
FOR THOSE WHO WANT
ACCESS TO TERABYTES
OF VIDEOS ON A PC-TV

Most people will probably only want to have maybe one or two or three harddrives on a system. The first drive would be the system drive with Windows on it. The second drive could a large video harddrive. And the third drive could be a data drive for all your other work and information.

However, some people will want to KEEP a huge number of videos on their system. This may require setting up a RAID (Redundant Array of Independent Drives) configuration of several more harddrives on the system where you take all of those harddrives and make them all look like one harddrive on the PC. You don't need the RAID unless if you really want to keep a ton of videos on the system like if you want to have instant access on your system to terabytes of videos. Otherwise, I would suggest you may only want to devote one big harddrive for the video where the video harddrive is at least 40 gigabytes or 60 gigabytes -or- preferably 80 gigabytles or 120 gigabytes.

Nonetheless, as for setting up a RAID configuration of several harddrives on a PC-TV system, there are people who have set up Home Theater PCs that utilize a RAID configuration of many harddrives to provide absolutely HUGE terabytes of storage space for their PVR videos. And there are movie and TV studio production companies and animation companies that use RAID for making their movies, TV shows, cartoons, etc. So, setting up a RAID configuration of harddrives for a PC-TV PVR system can be done if you want to go to that expense and effort to configure such a system. With a RAID configuration, you make all of the harddrives work together and appear to be one drive to the PC. If you are building a new PC, you may want to look for a motherboard that supports a RAID configuration of multiple harddrives.

This may seem to be too much for some people and for them it is perhaps easier to simply build up two (or more) PVR boxes instead of putting it all in one box. And if you want to share the videos between the boxes, then you could try networking the PVR boxes together. What you could try doing with a home local area network is to simply play .mpg and other video files across the home local area network without having to do any sort of fancy in-home streaming video -- why do streaming video if you can directly access and play the files across a local area network in your home assuming that the PCs can handle the load. Map the folder(s) with your video files as shared folders on your local area network and play the files.

ADDING HARDDRIVES BUT
VIA REMOVABLE DRAWERS

Another option instead of putting in a RAID arrangement of many large harddrives (where all of the harddrives are linked together and look like one super huge single harddrive to the PC) is to use a removable harddrive drawer on the PC. So, instead of opening up the PC every once in a while to replace the harddrive with a larger harddrive, you could put in a removable harddrive drawer to easily swap in a new harddrive. (This removable harddrive drawer option has already been discussed elsewhere here at Ruel.Net.)

Removable Harddrive Drawer is being pulled out.
The harddrive is inside the removable drawer and
you would remove the top of the drawer to change
the harddrive and swap in another harddrive.

You could have two or three harddrives where the main C: drive has the operating system and stays fixed in the PC and the second D: drive could be the storage drive in the removable harddrive drawer. When the storage harddrive is full, then swap in a new harddrive and put the full harddrive on the shelf with your other videos. It's kinda like 8Track tapes or videotape cassettes but with the harddrives. You may eventually be seeing this with a new type of tapeless "VCR" machine in the future where the recorder may have an expansion slot in the front to swap in a new harddrive "cassette" for more storage capacity. Just imagine going to your local department store to buy a harddrive "cassette" to insert into your tapeless "VCR" for recording another month of ALL of your favorite TV shows. The prices for harddrive "cassettes" may possibly be somewhat high when they are first introduced, but eventually look for prices to be like $50 for 50 gigabytes, $100 for 100 gigabytes, etc. for each harddrive "cassette" (and then there will be the techie folks who want to roll their own harddrive "cassettes" for such tapeless "VCR" machines). The tapeless "VCR" machines that would use these harddrive "cassettes" may be comparable in price to the TiVo boxes that are sold nowadays. You can have this harddrive "cassette" capacity right now for your PC-TV PVR system by installing a removable harddrive drawer for swapping in new empty harddrives.

VIDEO CARDS AND
MULTIPLE TV TUNERS

Also, you will have to experiment with different video cards to see if you can run two or more TV Tuner cards at the same time. I have to mention that the Geforce2 video cards which are relatively inexpensive and come with the TV OUT port depending on which model you get -- but they may not allow you to run more than one TV Tuner card at the same time on one PC (I haven't tested operating multiple TV Tuner cards with the other Geforce cards). You should be able to safely install more than one TV Tuner card on one PC (so long as no more than one TV Tuner uses VfW drivers), but you may or may not be able to turn them all on at the same time to watch multiple TVs on the PC depending on whichever video card is installed in your PC. You will have to experiment to see what works for you. If you want to use only one TV Tuner, then go use any video card you want including any of the Geforce video cards. But if you want to use more than one TV Tuner card at the same time on one PC, then you will have to test your video card to see if you can operate more than one TV Tuner card at the same time. I have been able to run my three TV Tuner cards with my SiS video card at the same time and also with an older ATI Rage Pro card. (Please note that your mix of hardware and/or software could factor into how well everything works together and whether or not there is any possible conflict because sometimes things simply don't work.) I would suggest if you are serious about wanting to run more than one TV Tuner card at the same time, if you can't do it with your current video card, then you may want to get a new video card at a local computer store in your neighborhood that has a reasonable return policy. That way if you can't do the simultaneous running of TV cards at the same time, then you can simply drive down to the store to return the video card and get another video card to try out. If you want to put only one TV Tuner card in your PVR box, then you shouldn't have to worry too much about which video card you use.

CHANGING HUNDREDS
OF CHANNELS AND
THE IR BLASTER

For the wide range of digital channels beyond the basic 125 channels found with basic cable, I think you may be stuck having to hook up your digital cable box (or digital satellite box) to the TV Tuner card and somehow trying to sync any PVR function on the PC with the digital cable box (or with the digital satellite box). You may want to check out the Hauppauge's two digital TV Tuner cards for satellite TV. (Hauppauge also has an HDTV card for receiving over-the-air terrestrial HDTV signals via antenna.) Hauppauge has the WinTV-DVB and the WinTV-Nexus cards for receiving free-to-receive DVB satellite television, but they cannot be used with DirecTV or Dish satellite television service since, according to the Hauppauge website, those two cards "cannot receive these broadcasts due to proprietary encryption schemes used" by DirecTV and Dish. You would find the same issue with digital cable boxes. The issue involves the digital decoding and the authorization processes that allow only legitimate subscribers to watch digital cable and digital satellite television services using authorized equipment. The authorized equipment is the digital cable box or the digital satellite box which have the authorized official decoders and subscription authorization processes. Note that the actual TV show being broadcast over digital cable or digital satellite may actually be analog and not HDTV, but the signal is sent digitally down the line to be received by the official digital cable box or by the official digital satellite box. You are most likely not going to find that sort of digital decoding and authorization processes in a TV Tuner card for the PC unless if the cable company (or the satellite company) sells you an official TV Tuner card with those capabilities built in -- the cable company (and the satellite company) wants to be able to control what you can access depending on whatever subscription you are paying for. Keep in mind that the cable TV companies and also the satellite TV companies do not want PC users to have direct access to the decryption capabilities on their PCs. Otherwise, if PC users have such direct access that PC users could hack into and manipulate, then there would be a huge new access piracy problem that the cable and satellite companies do not want to deal with. So, you have to hook up the digital cable box (or the digital satellite box) to your PC to get the TV signal. If you want regular basic cable which typically doesn't require a decoder box, then you simply hook up the cable and get up to 125 channels. But if you want digital cable (or digital satellite), then you need the digital cable box (or the digital satellite box) to decode the proprietary encrypted signal.

(PLEASE DON'T ASK IF THERE IS A SOFTWARE DESCRAMBLER. There is *NO* such thing as a software program for descrambling cable or satellite TV signals to get pay-per-view or premium channels. There is *NO* such thing. If you are one of those people who insist on asking about software descramblers, then click here to see more of what I tell people who keep sending me email asking questions asking about software descramblers. IN SHORT, THERE IS *NO* SUCH THING AS SOFTWARE DESCRAMBLERS.)

Okay, you need to have the digital cable box (or the digital satellite box) to receive the TV signal and you need that box to change channel. So, you hook up the box to the TV Tuner card. However, what if you want to change the channel but from the PC? One solution that I know for working with a cable box or a satellite box (non-DirecTV box) where you have the capability to change more than 125 channels via the PC is if the TV Tuner card on the PC has an IR Blaster connection that works to change the channels on the cable box (or the satellite box) while the signal is coming in on the video input on the TV Tuner card from the cable box (or the satellite box) like a connection from a VCR or some other external video device. When combined with software for the TV Tuner card, the IR Blaster can coordinate the changing of channels on the cable / satellite box with recording activities on the PC.

(If you have DirecTV satellite service, you could click here for the DirecTV Serial Control Utility to change channels on your DirecTV satellite box, but this software utility will not necessarily coordinate with any PVR recording software on your PC-TV system -- but if you are a C++ programmer then you can probably write another software application in C++ to have the utility work with other software on your PC. In order to use the software channel-changing utility, you will need a connection from the PC's serial port to the DirecTV satellite box -- as you can see, you still need the box.)

At this point, I'm NOT talking about decoding, decryption, or authorization processes. I'm talking about using the PC via the TV Tuner card or through some other connection to somehow change the channels on the cable box (or the satellite box) with the video coming from the cable box (or the satellite box) to the PC. You have the box connected -- you just want to change the channels on the box in coordination with whatever you are doing on the PC. Normally, you would point your remote control for the cable box (or the satellite box) at the box to change the channels -- and that box is typically sitting on top of your TV set and it seems like you are pointing at the TV but you are really pointing at the box telling it to change the channels. Going back to the IR Blaster for changing channels in coordination with other software on the PC, the IR Blaster would be doing the same thing but you would be pointing the remote control for the TV Tuner card at the IR Blaster sensor that tells the cable box (or the satellite box) to change the channel while coordinating with the TV Tuner card telling it that you are changing channels on the cable box (or the satellite box). The IR Blaster is like a remote control extension cord -- kinda like a remote-remote control. If you are already into audio-video equipment, such as if you have an audio-video receiver to control an assortment of electronic component boxes, or even if you have a digital cable or satellite box that came with an extra funny sensor cable that you would use to remotely control a VCR, then you may already be familiar with IR Blasters or have seen an IR Blaster. The only TV Tuner card that I know of which has an IR Blaster is the Creative Video Blaster Digital VCR card. (The expensive new Hewlett-Packard Media Center PC with Windows XP Media Center Edition is reported to have an IR Blaster -- you can click here for a PDF document for the specifications but no IR Blaster information for the remote control for WinXP Media Center Edition.) The ATI TV Wonder USB has an IR input but ATI is apparently not doing anything with that IR input at this time -- I would guess they will be setting up some sort of IR Blaster function in the future for that external USB TV Tuner device. I don't see anything like an IR input on any of the other ATI cards, but from the USB card it seems like ATI is aware of the problem of having to control cable boxes (and satellite boxes) that receive several hundred channels. It doesn't appear that any of the Hauppauge WinTV cards have an IR Blaster capability. However, if you already have a TV Tuner card and want to add an IR Blaster, you may want to consider the Actisys IR 200L / IR220L / IR220L+ / IR220LN IrDA Com-Port Serial Adapter or the RedRat IR device to see if either one could work for you -- but either device by itself without any other support may not necessarily be able to automatically coordinate with your particular TV-PVR software on your system. In comparison, the lone Creative Video Blaster Digital VCR card appears to be ahead of other TV cards in terms of IR Blaster support. Without the IR Blaster, you will be stuck using the remote control for the digital cable box (or for the digital satellite box) where you have to point the remote control at the digital cable box (or digital satellite box) to change the channels on that box without the PC-TV PVR being able to control/coordinate automatically with the box.

MARKET FOR TV TUNER CARDS
IS A DEVELOPING MARKET

Give the manufacturers of TV Tuner cards for PCs some time. Believe it or not, the TV Tuner card market is a niche market in the overall gigantic PC marketplace. But it is slowly growing. In time, you will most likely have IR Blaster capabilities built into more TV Tuner cards. I can't see there ever being an AUTHORIZED OFFICIAL market for digital decoders on PCs without the cable TV companies and satellite TV companies backing down. So, for those folks who want to access hundreds and hundreds of channels on the PC-TVs (not just the basic cable selection of 125 channels or less), I see the PC-TV solution requiring that the digital cable box (or the digital satellite box) be connected to the TV Tuner card and that the TV Tuner card use some sort of IR Blaster to control changing the channels on the digital cable box (or the digital satellite box). It's a matter of time before other TV Tuner cards have a similar capability. As for more storage capacity, you will be seeing larger and larger harddrives becoming available for the PC for those folks who want to build their own PVR boxes with either a expanding RAID configuration of harddrives or by using swappable removable harddrive drawers. And, sometime in the future, you will see TiVo manufacturers, former VCR manufacturers, and magnetic media companies like a Memorex, or a Seagate, or a Western Digital picking up on this trend that people simply want more capacity by getting into the business of selling harddrive "cassettes" for tapeless "VCR" machines.

Happy PC-TV Watching!
Ruel

NOTICE: Ruel provides many free links seen on these pages. If you buy anything, your purchases would be from a linked third-party website(s). The links are for your convenience since everyone asks for suggestions about products. The products should come with their own guarantees and warranties. As for return policies, the various online vendors who are linked should have return policies -- look at the specific vendor information carefully and decide for yourself what card, device, or other product you may want to get.